Lesser-gain tube suggestions for my Stage 60?

[gypsyblues73]

Very cool, thanks!

[gypsyblues73]

Okay, after reading that link, and looking at some various tubes, and checking out the info they have on thetubestore, I have a few more questions:
Are the terms "balanced" and "matched" interchangeable? I see both used, but it seems never by the same person, so I'm wondering if it's the same thing. Also, I've looked at about 2 dozen different tubes, and only saw one where the seller actually stated that it was balanced. So how do you know if a tube is balanced or not if it doesn't say so? Are most tubes balanced, or are they hard to find? I'm guessing I got a balanced tube for the inverter when I swapped mine out, since it took my Stage 60 from "Hey, that sounds good" to "OMFG!!!" as opposed to making it sound worse. So I'm thinking I'm just going to check out using a ECC832/12DW7 for the V1 and maybe trying a few others just for the hell of it.

[IM4Tone]

Can't say I'm 100% sure on this, but I always associated "matched" with multiple power tubes....i.e. their output is matched; as for balanced I've only seen it used in conjunction with pre-amp tubes used in the inverter position. It refers to two sections within the same tube having nearly identical output. Additionally, as I understand it, it is a test characteristic where, in the case of "matched" power tubes, they have been found to be so via testing and likewise for the "balanced" sections of pre-amp tubes. It's not like the manufacturer says "I think I'll make matched, or balanced tubes today". It's a case of finding less/no variability during testing of the final product.

I had an amp that had 3 12AX7 pre-amp tubes in it. Two were labeled 12AX7A and one 12AX7B and the "B" was in the inverter position. So ???????

Of course, the final test is the one given by your ear, so if you are happy that's all that matters. A pre-amp tube not tested nor marked as "balanced" might be well balanced, or not.

[gypsyblues73]

Can't say I'm 100% sure on this, but I always associated "matched" with multiple power tubes....i.e. their output is matched;

That's the way I always understood it too, but today I was reading a thing on thetubestore where the way they're talking about one specific, single tube, it made me start wondering, especially with this new info about balanced tubes and all.

[majikmojo]

my tech advises that a balanced PI tube is basically waste of money in a guitar amp mostly because none of the other circuitry
is balanced including the OT's - guitar amps rarely have a totally balanced PI circuit which makes the use of balanced PI tube of no real
audible value -

[gypsyblues73]

In the Eurotubes link that IM4Tone posted, the writer on that page gets into the argument for/against balanced tubes, stating that he basically believes balanced tubes are a must to maximize an amp's potential...then again, he's selling tubes, so keep that in mind

[majikmojo]

its always been a debate and probably always will be but i can tell you i have never used a balanced PI tube in my life
and do not believe i could tell the difference if i had unless i knew the whole circuit including the transformers were balanced as well

[IM4Tone]

my tech advises that a balanced PI tube is basically waste of money in a guitar amp mostly because none of the other circuitry
is balanced including the OT's - guitar amps rarely have a totally balanced PI circuit which makes the use of balanced PI tube of no real
audible value -

I've heard that theory also....who knows? Depends on the cost difference between a balanced inverter tube and one that isn't. On the link I posted above, the topic of an unbalanced circuit is addressed regarding the comment above. This author disagrees, and I never did a test using both the balanced and unbaslanced tubes, BUT to use the JJ 12AX7 as an example, the difference in cost between balanced and unbalanced is $3.00. So, for $3 I'll opt. for balanced. JMO YMMV