Lesser-gain tube suggestions for my Stage 60?

[gypsyblues73]

A couple of years ago, I put a pair of JJ ECC83's and an ECC82 in my amp to get a bit more gain, and I've been using them ever since. However, now I'm doing a bit of recording, some direct, and of course, when recording, my amp sound is much more distorted recorded than it is "live". So now I'm thinking of dialing back the gain factor in my tubes so I can crank the amp a bit more and just use pedals to get to the same distortion level that my amp normally does on its own now. Anyone have any suggestions for lower-gain tubes? I was thinking maybe a 12AY7, or 12AT7/ECC81. I have no experience with them though, and I have no idea what tube I would use for the inverter.

[majikmojo]

maybe this general guide will help:



12AX7 - ECC83, 7025, ECC803, E83CC, 6681 - GAIN FACTOR 100
12AT7 - ECC81, 6201, 6679 - GAIN FACTOR 60
12AY7 - 6072 - GAIN FACTOR 45
12AV7 - 5965 - GAIN FACTOR 41
12AU7 - ECC82, 5963, 5814, 6189 - GAIN FACTOR 19

[gypsyblues73]

maybe this general guide will help:



12AX7 - ECC83, 7025, ECC803, E83CC, 6681 - GAIN FACTOR 100
12AT7 - ECC81, 6201, 6679 - GAIN FACTOR 60
12AY7 - 6072 - GAIN FACTOR 45
12AV7 - 5965 - GAIN FACTOR 41
12AU7 - ECC82, 5963, 5814, 6189 - GAIN FACTOR 19

I've seen a list like that at thetubestore.com, but how do you know which tube to use as an inverter with a specific pair of tubes?

[IM4Tone]

Although I don't have the HT60 model, I'd replace the inverter in-kind (balanced) IF it needs replaced...otherwise not, then choose one of the lower gain tubes as mentioned above to reduce gain by channel. It's OK to replace only one pre-amp tube if gain reduction in one channel is your goal.

The specific tube choice is a matter of matching the gain with the genre of music you play. For the "drive" channel, I tried a 5751 first. It was good and a step in the right direction, but I followed-up with a 12AY7 and preferred it. To my ear, there is still way more than enough gain in the upper range of adjustment. The noticeable change was that the lower range of adjustability was widened significantly. Worked for me.

HTH

[gypsyblues73]

With the Stage 60, when I got it I was playing in a cover band and needed a wider-ranging amp than what I had been using, so upon discovering the Stage 60 I got it because I was impressed with the range of tones I could get out of it, with the 3 channels, Fender-ish cleans, Marshall-like crunch, not to mention the ISF, but I switched the tubes to JJ ECC83s because I needed to be able to get a bit more gain for some of the heavier songs that we played. However, now that I'm recording, especially when I'm direct recording via the emulated output, the gain that I get in my recordings is infinitely more than what you actually hear coming out of the actual speakers (a very common problem in recording, which is why everyone always advises to use much less gain than you're used to when recording, or else you'll get mush). So the ECC83s are a bit much for my purposes now. Plus, although we played metal in the cover band, only a few of my own songs could be somewhat considered metal; most fall along the lines of blues-rock or '70's-style rock, so I need something to bring the Stage 60 back down to that level, at least in the context of recording. But anyway...you're saying that it won't matter about what tube I use for the inverter, I can just leave the ECC82 where it is, and just change out one of the ECC83s for something else? Does it matter which one I change out?

[majikmojo]

change the tube in V1 to reduce the gain stage - like "tone " advises i would leave the V3 phase inverter alone unless it is bad
the phase inverter will affect tone much more than the V1 /V2 tubes will - the phase inverter is really the hardest working preamp tube
as it splits signals and and can affect voltage and imo is the most important tube affecting tone - so if your ok with the overall tone leave it alone

[gypsyblues73]

So the ECC82 I stuck in as the phase converter affects my tone that much? I think I read that when I was researching which tubes to switch to, but it was a couple of years ago, and I haven't fooled with tubes since. I couldn't remember which one affected the gain stage either. But if that's the case, then I'll just leave the inverter and V2 alone and maybe buy 2 or 3 different level tubes to try out in V1.

[IM4Tone]

So the ECC82 I stuck in as the phase converter affects my tone that much? I think I read that when I was researching which tubes to switch to, but it was a couple of years ago, and I haven't fooled with tubes since. I couldn't remember which one affected the gain stage either. But if that's the case, then I'll just leave the inverter and V2 alone and maybe buy 2 or 3 different level tubes to try out in V1.

Good approach....just make sure that the tube in the phase inverter is a balanced tube.

[gypsyblues73]

I have no idea what that means. It's a JJ ECC82 I grabbed when I got the ECC83's.

[IM4Tone]

I have no idea what that means. It's a JJ ECC82 I grabbed when I got the ECC83's.

Go to #6 of the FAQ for an explanation. http://www.eurotubes.com/eurotubes-FAQ- ... ing.htm#10.